Best Watchmen review so far

[Modemac]

http://kleinletters.com/Blog/?p=3188

(Todd Klein, as most fanboys know, is a celebrated comics letterer
who's worked on a number of Alan Moore's projects. (Yes, they still
draw somie comic book captions and word balloons by hand these days.)

--
The High Weirdness Project
http://www.modemac.com

[TheWatcherUatu]

Post by Modemac
http://kleinletters.com/Blog/?p=3188
(Todd Klein, as most fanboys know, is a celebrated comics letterer
who's worked on a number of Alan Moore's projects.  (Yes, they still
draw somie comic book captions and word balloons by hand these days.)
--
                        The High Weirdness Project
                         http://www.modemac.com

The bizarre thing about this review to me and the comments following
from it is that outside of Todd Klein and his followers, most people
seem to be agreed upon the idea that the ending used in the film
actually works better than the Moore/Gibbons giant squid. When you
think about it, it seems sort of obvious that the story could have
ended the way it did in the film, and yet I didn't see it coming.
Because of the terseness of his review, however, it's difficult to
know exactly what Klein's complaint about the ending was. If his point
was that it felt a little hollow without having gotten to know the
minor characters better (the newspaper vendor, the prison
psychiatrist, etc.), then I can agree. I'm looking forward to the
eventual extended cut where we might get some of those scenes with the
vendor and the comic reading kid. But as to the culmination of Veidt's
plot, I thought it was pretty clever.

-Justin

[Kenneth M. Lin]

Post by TheWatcherUatu

Post by Modemac
http://kleinletters.com/Blog/?p=3188
(Todd Klein, as most fanboys know, is a celebrated comics letterer
who's worked on a number of Alan Moore's projects. (Yes, they still
draw somie comic book captions and word balloons by hand these days.)
--
The High Weirdness Project
http://www.modemac.com

The bizarre thing about this review to me and the comments following
from it is that outside of Todd Klein and his followers, most people
seem to be agreed upon the idea that the ending used in the film
actually works better than the Moore/Gibbons giant squid. When you
think about it, it seems sort of obvious that the story could have
ended the way it did in the film, and yet I didn't see it coming.
Because of the terseness of his review, however, it's difficult to
know exactly what Klein's complaint about the ending was. If his point
was that it felt a little hollow without having gotten to know the
minor characters better (the newspaper vendor, the prison
psychiatrist, etc.), then I can agree. I'm looking forward to the
eventual extended cut where we might get some of those scenes with the
vendor and the comic reading kid. But as to the culmination of Veidt's
plot, I thought it was pretty clever.

The comics ending is problematic because they left fake alien body that
could be traced back to them.

On the other hand, the problem with the movie ending is that Ozzy knows so
much about Mr. M. that he probably could have talked him into going along
without the ruse. (Smartest man would find a way to do something without
deceptions, no?) Mr. M. agreed with Ozzy at the end anyway and even killed
Rossy for trying to expose them.

[Eman]

Post by Kenneth M. Lin

Post by TheWatcherUatu

Post by Modemac
http://kleinletters.com/Blog/?p=3188
(Todd Klein, as most fanboys know, is a celebrated comics letterer
who's worked on a number of Alan Moore's projects. (Yes, they still
draw somie comic book captions and word balloons by hand these days.)
--
The High Weirdness Project
http://www.modemac.com

The bizarre thing about this review to me and the comments following
from it is that outside of Todd Klein and his followers, most people
seem to be agreed upon the idea that the ending used in the film
actually works better than the Moore/Gibbons giant squid. When you
think about it, it seems sort of obvious that the story could have
ended the way it did in the film, and yet I didn't see it coming.
Because of the terseness of his review, however, it's difficult to
know exactly what Klein's complaint about the ending was. If his point
was that it felt a little hollow without having gotten to know the
minor characters better (the newspaper vendor, the prison
psychiatrist, etc.), then I can agree. I'm looking forward to the
eventual extended cut where we might get some of those scenes with the
vendor and the comic reading kid. But as to the culmination of Veidt's
plot, I thought it was pretty clever.

The comics ending is problematic because they left fake alien body that
could be traced back to them.
On the other hand, the problem with the movie ending is that Ozzy knows so
much about Mr. M. that he probably could have talked him into going along
without the ruse.  (Smartest man would find a way to do something without
deceptions, no?)  Mr. M. agreed with Ozzy at the end anyway and even killed
Rossy for trying to expose them.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I never read the comic. But with all of the talk about how Mr. M saw
time, I thought at some point in time he would figure out that he was
the reason that the Cold War had been able to continue to escalate to
the point of DEFCON 1. (Heck, when was the last time you heard about
DEFCON, that term use to send shivers down your spine, now its all
about TERROR ALERT). At that point he would find a way to sacrifice
himself to set things right and allow humanity to save itself from the
brink of destruction. But, that didn't happen.

I liked the movie in general, but it left me with a bad taste in my
mouth. None of the characters were really likeable. Roschach was the
crowd favorite enticing the only outbursts from the crowd during the
movie 3 times. First with the mention that he dropped some guy down
an elevator shaft, second the fryer scene, and lastly his artistic
finale in the snow. I guess he's the only character the crowd could
really understand with only his and Mr. M's backstory really being
explained. But then with the end of the flick you can't even walk
away cheering for him, the only real hero.

[Invid Fan]

In article

Post by Eman
I never read the comic. But with all of the talk about how Mr. M saw
time, I thought at some point in time he would figure out that he was
the reason that the Cold War had been able to continue to escalate to
the point of DEFCON 1. (Heck, when was the last time you heard about
DEFCON, that term use to send shivers down your spine, now its all
about TERROR ALERT). At that point he would find a way to sacrifice
himself to set things right and allow humanity to save itself from the
brink of destruction. But, that didn't happen.

There was a movie script floating around from the writer of the first
Tim Burton Batman that changed the plot to have Ozzy trying to get rid
of Dr. M for that reason. I haven't seen the new movie yet, but in the
book the vibe I got was that for all his work this wold peace Ozzy
achieved wouldn't last long (and he wasn't smart enough to know that
before Dr. M hinted at it at the end).

[Brenda Clough]

Post by Invid Fan
In article

Post by Eman
I never read the comic. But with all of the talk about how Mr. M saw
time, I thought at some point in time he would figure out that he was
the reason that the Cold War had been able to continue to escalate to
the point of DEFCON 1. (Heck, when was the last time you heard about
DEFCON, that term use to send shivers down your spine, now its all
about TERROR ALERT). At that point he would find a way to sacrifice
himself to set things right and allow humanity to save itself from the
brink of destruction. But, that didn't happen.

There was a movie script floating around from the writer of the first
Tim Burton Batman that changed the plot to have Ozzy trying to get rid
of Dr. M for that reason. I haven't seen the new movie yet, but in the
book the vibe I got was that for all his work this wold peace Ozzy
achieved wouldn't last long (and he wasn't smart enough to know that
before Dr. M hinted at it at the end).

Exactly as in the GN.

Brenda

[Eman]

Post by Brenda Clough

Post by Invid Fan
In article

I never read the comic.  But with all of the talk about how Mr. M saw
time, I thought at some point in time he would figure out that he was
the reason that the Cold War had been able to continue to escalate to
the point of DEFCON 1.   (Heck, when was the last time you heard about
DEFCON, that term use to send shivers down your spine, now its all
about TERROR ALERT).  At that point he would find a way to sacrifice
himself to set things right and allow humanity to save itself from the
brink of destruction.  But, that didn't happen.

There was a movie script floating around from the writer of the first
Tim Burton Batman that changed the plot to have Ozzy trying to get rid
of Dr. M for that reason. I haven't seen the new movie yet, but in the
book the vibe I got was that for all his work this wold peace Ozzy
achieved wouldn't last long (and he wasn't smart enough to know that
before Dr. M hinted at it at the end).

Exactly as in the GN.
Brenda- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Pretty much the same as in the movie too. For all their super
intelligence, they were pretty dumb.

[SteveZim1017]

I don't mind the ending trying to tie it back to Dr Manhattan instead
of the space squid, the only problem I had with the movie ending was
the lack of bodies. They spend the whole movie trying to be as
visceral as possible (both physically and with plot points). After
seeing the sex scene and bones ripping out of arms etc, having an
ending that is just a big glowing orb and then buildings missing and
being TOLD millions died... seems too, i dunno, antiseptic of an
ending. You have no sense of the tragedy or epic scale of the death.
I think the comics did a much better job in that regard.

I know the studio wanted that way cause of 9/11 but really I think it
was the wrong choice.

[Edward McArdle]

Post by Kenneth M. Lin

Post by TheWatcherUatu

Post by Modemac
http://kleinletters.com/Blog/?p=3188
(Todd Klein, as most fanboys know, is a celebrated comics letterer
who's worked on a number of Alan Moore's projects. (Yes, they still
draw somie comic book captions and word balloons by hand these days.)
--
The High Weirdness Project
http://www.modemac.com

The bizarre thing about this review to me and the comments following
from it is that outside of Todd Klein and his followers, most people
seem to be agreed upon the idea that the ending used in the film
actually works better than the Moore/Gibbons giant squid. When you
think about it, it seems sort of obvious that the story could have
ended the way it did in the film, and yet I didn't see it coming.
Because of the terseness of his review, however, it's difficult to
know exactly what Klein's complaint about the ending was. If his point
was that it felt a little hollow without having gotten to know the
minor characters better (the newspaper vendor, the prison
psychiatrist, etc.), then I can agree. I'm looking forward to the
eventual extended cut where we might get some of those scenes with the
vendor and the comic reading kid. But as to the culmination of Veidt's
plot, I thought it was pretty clever.

The comics ending is problematic because they left fake alien body that
could be traced back to them.
On the other hand, the problem with the movie ending is that Ozzy knows so
much about Mr. M. that he probably could have talked him into going along
without the ruse. (Smartest man would find a way to do something without
deceptions, no?) Mr. M. agreed with Ozzy at the end anyway and even killed
Rossy for trying to expose them.

Actually - and I'm going on memory her as I've only seen it once - I
thought Dr Manhattan killed Rorshack because Rorshack wanted to be killed.
I thought that was basically his aim in prison, too.

[Invid Fan]

Post by Edward McArdle

Post by Kenneth M. Lin

Post by TheWatcherUatu

Post by Modemac
http://kleinletters.com/Blog/?p=3188
(Todd Klein, as most fanboys know, is a celebrated comics letterer
who's worked on a number of Alan Moore's projects. (Yes, they still
draw somie comic book captions and word balloons by hand these days.)
--
The High Weirdness Project
http://www.modemac.com

The bizarre thing about this review to me and the comments following
from it is that outside of Todd Klein and his followers, most people
seem to be agreed upon the idea that the ending used in the film
actually works better than the Moore/Gibbons giant squid. When you
think about it, it seems sort of obvious that the story could have
ended the way it did in the film, and yet I didn't see it coming.
Because of the terseness of his review, however, it's difficult to
know exactly what Klein's complaint about the ending was. If his point
was that it felt a little hollow without having gotten to know the
minor characters better (the newspaper vendor, the prison
psychiatrist, etc.), then I can agree. I'm looking forward to the
eventual extended cut where we might get some of those scenes with the
vendor and the comic reading kid. But as to the culmination of Veidt's
plot, I thought it was pretty clever.

The comics ending is problematic because they left fake alien body that
could be traced back to them.
On the other hand, the problem with the movie ending is that Ozzy knows so
much about Mr. M. that he probably could have talked him into going along
without the ruse. (Smartest man would find a way to do something without
deceptions, no?) Mr. M. agreed with Ozzy at the end anyway and even killed
Rossy for trying to expose them.

Actually - and I'm going on memory her as I've only seen it once - I
thought Dr Manhattan killed Rorshack because Rorshack wanted to be killed.
I thought that was basically his aim in prison, too.

While he certainly didn't care if he lived or died, it was more a case
of Rorshack not agreeing to go against his morals and keep quiet, and
telling the good Doctor to go ahead and kill him if they wanted to keep
this secret so badly.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Invid Fan

Post by Edward McArdle

Post by Kenneth M. Lin

Post by TheWatcherUatu

Post by Modemac
http://kleinletters.com/Blog/?p=3188
(Todd Klein, as most fanboys know, is a celebrated comics letterer
who's worked on a number of Alan Moore's projects. (Yes, they
still draw somie comic book captions and word balloons by hand
these days.)
--
The High Weirdness Project
http://www.modemac.com

The bizarre thing about this review to me and the comments
following from it is that outside of Todd Klein and his followers,
most people seem to be agreed upon the idea that the ending used
in the film actually works better than the Moore/Gibbons giant
squid. When you think about it, it seems sort of obvious that the
story could have ended the way it did in the film, and yet I
didn't see it coming. Because of the terseness of his review,
however, it's difficult to know exactly what Klein's complaint
about the ending was. If his point was that it felt a little
hollow without having gotten to know the minor characters better
(the newspaper vendor, the prison psychiatrist, etc.), then I can
agree. I'm looking forward to the eventual extended cut where we
might get some of those scenes with the vendor and the comic
reading kid. But as to the culmination of Veidt's plot, I thought
it was pretty clever.

The comics ending is problematic because they left fake alien body
that could be traced back to them.
On the other hand, the problem with the movie ending is that Ozzy
knows so much about Mr. M. that he probably could have talked him
into going along without the ruse. (Smartest man would find a way
to do something without deceptions, no?) Mr. M. agreed with Ozzy
at the end anyway and even killed Rossy for trying to expose them.

Actually - and I'm going on memory her as I've only seen it once - I
thought Dr Manhattan killed Rorshack because Rorshack wanted to be
killed. I thought that was basically his aim in prison, too.

While he certainly didn't care if he lived or died, it was more a case
of Rorshack not agreeing to go against his morals and keep quiet, and
telling the good Doctor to go ahead and kill him if they wanted to
keep this secret so badly.

Part of it could also be that R was honestly angry with Dr M for not having
the courage of his convictions. If you're going to kill to keep that kind
of secret, then don't pussyfoot around and hesitate, DO IT!

(And fear too. Whether he wanted to or not, he knew he was going to die and
you fear that no matter what.)

[Jamie Andrews; real address @ bottom of message]

Post by TheWatcherUatu
But as to the culmination of Veidt's
plot, I thought it was pretty clever.

So did I. Actually, though, I haven't seen much discussion
of the buildup to the denouement.

***MOVIE SPOILERS BEGIN***

AFAICT (from just one viewing) at the beginning there are
no electric cars, no spark hydrants, and Jon's energy has not
been harnessed yet. In the GN, there's a mundane explanation
for the electric cars: Jon can produce lithium easily, so
batteries are cheap. In the movie, I get the impression that
they are trying to harness the "Dr. Manhattan energy" directly,
so that it can be a source of "free energy" as Veidt says.

The "Free Energy" thing is Veidt's ruse, of course, but it
seems that it's not just a ruse. At the end of the film, we see
the electric cars and the spark hydrants. So it seems that
Veidt did manage to harness Dr. Manhattan's energy; the first
thing he applies it to is the bombs, but he is also seriously
interested in supplying free energy.

AFAICT this is his argument with the auto execs. They
don't want electric cards (viz. _Who Killed the Electric Car_)
so they don't want him to proceed with his plan.

Was I reading it right? (The movie, I mean, not the GN.)

*** MOVIE SPOILERS END***

BTW, y'all might very possibly be interested in this link:

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/faculty/andrews/AnnotatedWatchmenV2/

It's version 2.0 of _The Annotated Watchmen_. The original was
developed by Doug Atkinson from discussions right here on good
ol' Usenet, and this update includes over 50% new or changed
material.

--Jamie. (efil4dreN)
andrews .uwo } Merge these two lines to obtain my e-mail address.
@csd .ca } (Unsolicited "bulk" e-mail costs everyone.)

[Scott]

Post by Modemac
http://kleinletters.com/Blog/?p=3188

Good review, thanks for sharing it.

The best short review I have is...it was better than I thought it
would be, but not as great as I thought it could be.

.
.


- Scott Smith: ***@iphouse.com
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/choppersmith